Trouble shooting MTH Protosound 1

389 Views 15 Replies 7 Participants Last post by gunrunnerjohn, 4 d ago

matpal

Discussion Starter · 12 d ago

I run S-gauge for my own layout and sometimes I pick up some items in other gauges that I can resell in order to fund my own layout.

I picked up an MTH 20-2178 DD40AX Diesel and while playing around with it, seems maybe I got a lemon.

The unit came without any battery, but rather had what appeared to be two 9-volt recpeters hooked together. Consulting the owner's manual mentions 1 battery, but no pictures, but states an actual 9-volt will work in a pinch if you can't source their proprietary battery. I went ahead and disconnected these from each other and installed 2 9 volt batteries.

So putting fresh batteries in, validated with a multi-meter did nothing. There's no bell sounds when powering on or off, but there are 3 loud "clanks" when initial power is applied. Horn and whistle buttons have no effect.

The unit will power on and smokes like a champ but seemed to be stuck in neutral. I used a Z-4000 to enter programing mode and did the option 18 reset to go back to factory defaults, and while the engine reacted, it still will not advance forward or backwards.

So I've got no sound and no motion. I've read briefly about a reprogramming chip, but it seemed like a last resort. I'm hopping there would be an easier solution.

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gunrunnerjohn

· #2 · 12 d ago (Edited)

2

The three loud clanks are the "clanks of death", a classic PS/1 failure symptom. it's due to a failing or missing battery.

There is a reset chip that is available to reset the engine.

However, for the same price you can also get an updated chip for the locomotive that ignores the scrambled memory and will never do this again, that's what I'd order.

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matpal

Discussion Starter · #3 · 12 d ago (Edited)

Thanks very much. Just a few questions from your reply:

Edit... You are correct, this is 1.0 and not protosounds 2....

If the clank results from battery issues, shouldn't a new battery address that?

Will the updated chip also fix the motion issues as well as the sound? And is it plug in or needs to be soldered?

Thanks again.

Lehigh74

· #4 · 11 d ago

I’ve never had a PS1, but having two battery connectors connected together or having two 9V batteries doesn’t sound right to me. I thought PS 1 and early PS 2 had just one 9V battery.

seayakbill

· #5 · 11 d ago

Lehigh74 said:
I’ve never had a PS1, but having two battery connectors connected together or having two 9V batteries doesn’t sound right to me. I thought PS 1 and early PS 2 had just one 9V battery.

Yep, only one 9 volt battery, a previous owner has done some mysterious tinkering.

I have a few MTH PS-1 locos that I had bought new when first released many, many years ago. They all still run perfectly after all these years. What I did do was at the 5 year mark, I pulled the battery and replaced with a BCR, never had any problems with this set-up.

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Jetguy

· #6 · 11 d ago

Come on guys, that second battery clip likely WAS a DIY BCR and he failed to trace where the clip went to. Nothing mysterious about it . Follow wire and actually determine what it was connected to.

So yeah, likely it a had a BCR, someone STILL managed to lock the original chip or it was locked before the DIY BCR was installed.

And think about this- what happened polarity wise when he plugged a 9V battery INTO a BCR!!!!!! That's equivalent of putting 2 9V together in dead short.

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gunrunnerjohn

· #7 · 11 d ago

2

matpal said:
If the clank results from battery issues, shouldn't a new battery address that?

Once you have the three clanks, nothing but a reset or the later vintage chip will fix it.

matpal said:
Will the updated chip also fix the motion issues as well as the sound? And is it plug in or needs to be soldered?

Yes, when you get the three clanks, the engine isn't going to move. The chip is a PLCC chip, so you MUST also pickup a PLCC extractor to remove the old chip.

Professional Tool PLCC IC Extractor

This is the chip you're replacing.

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matpal

Discussion Starter · #8 · 11 d ago

Thanks, John

matpal

Discussion Starter · #9 · 11 d ago

2

Jetguy said:
Come on guys, that second battery clip likely WAS a DIY BCR and he failed to trace where the clip went to. Nothing mysterious about it . Follow wire and actually determine what it was connected to.

So yeah, likely it a had a BCR, someone STILL managed to lock the original chip or it was locked before the DIY BCR was installed.

And think about this- what happened polarity wise when he plugged a 9V battery INTO a BCR!!!!!! That's equivalent of putting 2 9V together in dead short.

This first clip leads to a "power store" pictured here.

The second leads to the board.

What do you think I should do with these?

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gunrunnerjohn

· #10 · 11 d ago

2

Well, there's a problem! That's a single 5V supercap, not compatible with the 5V boards. The cap has probably been destroyed by the excessive voltage from the charging circuit! It could have also damaged the board charging circuit.

I have fabricated supercap replacements for PS1 and 5V PS2 boards, but they consist of two 5V supercaps in series to achieve the voltage rating required.

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matpal

Discussion Starter · #11 · 11 d ago

John, the "power store" pictured above is the 5v supercap?

So that was running to the board via the two (what appeared to be) 9v connectors.

If I take that power store out and replace it with the intended mth battery, is that good, or is the entire board probably fried?

Is this thing repairable in your opinion, and what do I need to do besides the chip?

gunrunnerjohn

· #12 · 11 d ago

It's likely that the board is OK, but you still need the chip as you're locked up in the three clanks of death. You obviously need a 9V NiMh battery as well.

BobS2056

· #13 · 10 d ago

Let us know if you replace the chip and battery and if then it works

matpal

Discussion Starter · #14 · 5 d ago

Ok, guys, so new chip installed. Still testing with a normal 9v battery because according to the owner's manual it should work.

And... I've got nothing. I don't have the 3 clanks anymore, but I still don't have any motion or sound. It does let out a garbled fart noise when completely drained of power.

I again went through the "factory rest 18 option" and again, the train reacted to it, flashing it's lights, it still won't move.

This was going to be a flip for me and with the additional $50 for chip and PLCC puller, I really don't want to throw anymore money at it.

Any other ideas how to get this thing rolling?

Ron045

· #15 · 5 d ago

Make sure you start up below 10 volts. Then after exiting neutral to move forward you can go full throttle if you want.

gunrunnerjohn

· #16 · 4 d ago

Well, if it's cosmetically in excellent shape, I might be interested in taking it off your hands. I run strictly command, so the bad board wouldn't be an issue as it would be getting a full command upgrade in any case.

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