I don't have one, but check to see if there is play in the armature. If the hole that holds it on the brush plate is worn it could throw it out of wack. I'm guessing you ruled out a armature problum. Other stuff could be a broken wire touching the housing, or a cold solder joint. I once had an engine when turned upside down ran fine but when turned over a wire moved and Nada. Check the brush plate too , make sure nothing is moving or touching something it shouldn't. Good luck and update us.

 

If you presently have the E unit completely disconnected, and just dealing with the motor, take a jumper cord from either of the two field coil solder connections, and the other end to the left side brush contact. Take your transformer leads, and connect one lead to the opposite field coil connection, and the remaining transformer lead, and connect it to the metal body of the motor. Turn the transformer up, and it should run in one direction. Then switch the field coil leads the other way, and it should run in the opposite direction. If that works, it proves that the motor itself is good. That then narrows it down to the E unit wiring, or a faulty E unit.

By touching the right side brush connection, directly from the transformer, you are actually bypassing the field coil, and it doesn't have any effect for the field to build up the charge. You have to take the transformer lead to ground of the metal body, to have the circuit see the full field coil. They are really easy to get running, and to test with what I described.

As a NOTE, the 1654 motor is identical to the last version of motor used in the later issued 1688 Prewar locos, which I am very well versed in.

 

Thank you for the responses, SJM and teledoc. There is a good fit between the armature shaft and brush plate hole and I have conducted the tests on the armature that I am aware of, namely plate to plate, plate to armature shaft and coil end to coil end resistance checks. Teledoc, I do have the E unit disconnected and firstly conducted the operational test you outlined. The results were the same as before, namely that with power turned up the armature buzzed and jumped about half the arc length of a armature plate, then nothing. With power off and the armature manually advanced, the same action was observed when power was once again provided. I did this several times, all with similar results. I then did some rewiring to match the more typical Lionel setup by connecting one coil post (the one away from the brush side) to the armature frame , connected the other coil post to the left brush, isolated the right brush from its mounting screw, connected that brush to one transformer lead, applied power and then connected the other transformer lead to the motor frame. My results were the same. The armature buzzed, jumped ahead a bit, then nothing. It just seems that there has to be something wrong with the armature itself but my tests don't indicate what is wrong.

swede

 

Thank you for the responses, SJM and teledoc. There is a good fit between the armature shaft and brush plate hole and I have conducted the tests on the armature that I am aware of, namely plate to plate, plate to armature shaft and coil end to coil end resistance checks.

Teledoc, I do have the E unit disconnected and firstly conducted the operational test you outlined. The results were the same as before, namely that with power turned up the armature buzzed and jumped about half the arc length of a armature plate, then nothing.

With power off and the armature manually advanced, the same action was observed when power was once again provided. I did this several times, all with similar results.

I then did some rewiring to match the more typical Lionel setup by connecting one coil post (the one away from the brush side) to the armature frame , connected the other coil post to the left brush, isolated the right brush from its mounting screw, connected that brush to one transformer lead, applied power and then connected the other transformer lead to the motor frame. My results were the same.

The armature buzzed, jumped ahead a bit, then nothing. It just seems that there has to be something wrong with the armature itself but my tests don't indicate what is wrong.

swede

I had to change the above so I could read it easier. Much easier to read then just one big blob of words.
Hope you don't mind.:smokin:

Not saying that this is your problem but I had a similar problem with a whistle motor.

Make sure that the motor's field housing is tight. I had a motor hanging up the same way (if I am reading your problem right) and it was a loose motor field housing.
The field housing was a little loose and moved a hair causing the armature to hang up (hit) on the housing.

It was a whistle motor, but a motor is a motor.

I put a screw driver like shown and put a little pressure on the field housing and it took off running like a rocket. I let up and the armature would jam.
The studs (whatever you call them) holding the field on were loose.
(you can see one of the "studs" just above the brush housing.)
Like I said this may not be your problem but give it a look.

 

Test strapping motor

rrswede, On the armature faces (3 segments), the resistance has to be the same for all three segments. I only have a Simpson 260 to work with, but I measured one segment against the others, and came up with a resistance of .6-.8 ohms, between all the segments. If any one of the segments is different, the armature is the culprit. I then measured the field coil and came up with about .8-1 ohm resistance, which shows continuity through the field coil. The brushes should be 1-92 brushes, and hopefully in good shape, or new.

Below is a motor from a 1688 that gets wired, and is basically the same as your 1654 motor. (Ed said, a motor is a motor...LOL), which is correct. It shows a red wire connected to the left side brush tab, and then to the back field coil wire. The two wires below are from your transformer, and one lead gets attached to the opposite field coil wire, the other lead connects to the metal body of the motor. If everything is correct, it should run in one direction. To test the reverse direction, move the red wire from the back field coil to the front, and the transformer lead to the back field coil wire. It should now run in the opposite direction.

The basic design and wiring on most of these motors is the same, as far as testing the motor, minus the E units.

 

The E unit wiring is the bottom two finger contact goes to one side of the field coil. Now looking at the 4 finger contact, there are 4 positions, with wires on (counting left to right) position 1 goes to the solder tab of the brush assembly. Number 2 wire is to the opposite field coil wire. Number 3 has NO WIRE. Number 4 goes to the collector assembly, and the lever of the E unit, for power.

 

Thanks Ed and teledoc,

The armature housing is riveted to the motor frame and there is absolutely no movement.

I am using a freebie Harbor Freight meter that has on zeroing capability. The leads, when touched together, read 1.2 ohms. The plate to plate resistances read 1.4, 1.4, 1.3. The coil reads 2.8 ohms and all plates to armature shaft read infinity.

I took 3 photos of the motor and have tried to upload them from Photobucket but they don't copy over for some reason. I am using Google Chrome with Photobucket.

Rest assured I have jumpered one field post to the left (ungrounded) brush, the right brush is grounded to the armature housing and motor frame via the right side brush plate screw, one lead of the transformer is connected to the second field post with the other lead connected to the motor frame. When power is applied, I hear a buzz, the armature moves forward a very short distance and no further. If power is disconnected and then reconnected without manually advancing the armature, the armature does not even move a tiny bit. If the armature is manually advanced a bit with the power off it does advance a tiny bit when the power is reintroduced.

swede

 

Rather than fiddle around any longer, I removed the armature from a 1654 that is running and placed it in the motor I have been working on. The motor worked as it should. Still don't understand what could be wrong with the original armature.

swede

 

Posting photos

rrswede, The process to add photos is far easier here than on CTT. Do you have the photos stored on your computer, in a folder? If you do, then you can add the photos directly from the computer. Looking at the screen where you are typing your info, scroll down the page to where it says "additional option". There is a choice to attach files with the "manage attachments". When you want to put the photo into the body of your posting, click those options, and it brings up a new small screen usually in the upper left. Click the top file, of which you can add 5 photos at a time. Search for your photo you want to add, and click that photo. It will show the file name just to the right if it was successful. Click "upload" and in a few seconds it should have uploaded. Close that small window and the scroll back up to the post you were typing. There is a toolbar up top, and next to the smiley face is a "paperclip icon". It will show the file you uploaded, and click on that, so the photo will show in your post.

 

Kind of a stupid question, but did the wheels and gears roll freely by hand? I don't have the same motor you are messing with not inside a loco, and would have to tear the 1688 I have apart to look at the gearing. Is it possible that the teeth on the gears were messed up?? In which case the motor would bind up under power. Just a thought!!

 

Teledoc, have not attempted to resend photos, but will.

The wheels and gears turn very easily and even do so immediately after power is applied and the armature starts and then stops.

I visually compared the swapped armature with the troublesome one and didn't notice any dimensional differences but the troublesome one has a great deal of black discoloration and crust on the windings. Perhaps it has seen a great deal of heat. I did notice this earlier but the tests indicated the armature was functioning as it should. Could the armature somehow fail and still pass the resistance checks?

 

That could be the problem, where it gets voltage applied it heats up enough that the resistance changes. I had a whistle that did basically the same, that no matter what I did, it would not work with voltage applied. It is just sitting in my junk pile now.