[ErnestHouse]

After 4 years and a billion bone jarring trips up and down my little track, this poor thing really labors loudly at full ZW throttle. There's barely enough force to reverse. I lubed the pinion gear under the armature but that didn't help. I'm thinking maybe the gearing just plain worn out. It looks difficult to get into.

This is the current situation:

This is how it was after my LED conversion 4 years ago:

 

[Millstonemike]

Well, I'm not familiar with your maintenance/repair skill level so ...

Lubed the motor, gearing, etc.? Checked the gears for wear?
Cleaned the wheels, track, pickup rollers? Power connection to the track?
Motor armature face and brush cleaning?

 

[T-Man]

For starters the old grease has to be cleaned out. Unsolder the short wire to remove the brush holder. The armature may have washers or even a bearing. The condition of the armature plate should be smooth and clean. Then the wheels should spin freely. Old oil could be there gumming out the shaft.

 

[ErnestHouse]

Thanks for the replies. wheels, track rollers are all fine. First thing I did was pop off the brush holder. Armature just sits in a hole (no bearing) with its driver gear contacting the pinion on the axle (see attached from justtrains.com).

I cleaned the armature and brushes with alcohol. Wheels spin freely. I don't know enough to judge the gear condition by sight but like I said, to listen to it as in the video, it strikes me as borked up gears.

 

[Millstonemike]

Armature just sits in a hole (no bearing) ...

 

[Chiefmcfuz]

I am having a similar issue with one myself. I just ordered new brushes. Hoping that does it for me.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[ErnestHouse]

Thanks @MillstoneMike. The bushing is there. The diagram is great.

 

[B&O Forever]

Based upon the sound in you video, I think the armature shaft needs lubrication.

 

[ErnestHouse]

I can't tell if the teeth are messed up or not. Wheels only move under power. The armature and wheels do not spin when I manually move the unit... locked up. I found the parts online thanks to the diagram but I don't see a way to access the gear and axle. How the heck do you even open up the thing?

Any other special tools besides a wheel puller? TIA

 

[teledoc]

Ernest, IN your post #9, it possibly looks like the worm wheel, that the armature is geared to, is worn. It is hard to tell from the photo, if the teeth are actually worn down. That could be one of the causes of the noise. Here is the link from Olsen's, with all the pages to the #60 Trolley. You can see all the parts, page by page. If the worm wheel is in fact worn, it will be a project to repair it, and may be more costly, than replacing it with another trolley. To replace the worm gear, requires pulling the wheels off the one end, driving out the axle, and putting a new gear in place.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=490

 

[Millstonemike]

It looks like bumbp slide needs to be removed. And that may require removing the motor. Hopefully just the 2 standoffs hold it in.

In the second pic: Hard to see with the flash reflection but the teeth seem shot.

And ... is that actually a bearing? Maybe what's left of it after being ground by the worm gear. Almost looks like it's threaded (shouldn't be). TTender lists the replacement as nylon

If you have a full hardware store with "all those slide boxes of specialty screws" you may find a nylon insert that would do the trick.You'll need is similar thickness and an inside diameter that matches the motor shaft. It looks like it's meant to slide into position front-to-back with the motor in the oblong cutout of the slide bumper. But the bearing may be held in place "side to side" by structure under the slide bumper. You'll have to see. If it's loose on the motor shaft, that would allow too much play in the worm drive, hence the gear wear.

 

[TrainLarry]

The wheels will not move when they are turned due to the design of the gear being driven directly by the armature.

Here are the assembly diagrams of the #60 Trolley:
http://http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/opcar/acc60p3.pdf

http://http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/cd/opcar/acc60p2.pdf

To disassemble the unit, unscrew with a wrench the 2 hexagonal posts that hold the motor field assembly to the body.
Remove the Reversing Slide assembly.

To change the gear on the axle, pull 1 wheel of using a wheel puller. The next part is tricky. You need to slowly punch out the axle with a hammer and proper size punch until the axle is free of the gear. You need to support the side of the frame on a block of wood with a hole of sufficient size and depth for the wheel and axle to drop into.

Replacement is the opposite procedure, supporting the opposite side of the frame as you tap the axle through the new gear. Press the wheel on, and you are done.


Larry

 

[Millstonemike]

To change the gear on the axle, pull 1 wheel of using a wheel puller. The next part is tricky. You need to slowly punch out the axle with a hammer and proper size punch until the axle is free of the gear. Larry

In the absence of a wheel puller, do you condone punching the axle out of the wheel. That is, place the unit on it's side on a block of wood to support the opposite side wheel. The wood block would have a hole drilled allowing the axle to move down. Then punch the the axle through that upside wheel.

I've done this but only on wheels that weren't salvageable.

 

[ErnestHouse]

MTF is great. @millstonemike: That is a nylon bushing.

All: Thanks for the detailed posts and descriptions. I think I'll get a wheel puller and take a run at the disassembly and replacement of the worm wheel. The challenge is the reward. Love these mechanical things.

Would you replace the brushes and armature as well?
Also, I am a wheel noob. What is the purpose of the second hole in the wheels?

 

[gunrunnerjohn]

Unless you're seeing something I'm not seeing, I don't see any bad gears.

 

[B&O Forever]

I agree with GRJ. Usually a worn gear has teeth which have a knife like edge.


Also, the gear in question is turning at a fraction of the speed of the armature.

The armature worm gear looks ok to me too.

Are you sure you have lubricated the TOP of the armature?
the area where the armature goes into the brush plate. Several of my locos make a similar sound until lubricated.

 

[TrainLarry]

Replace the brushes if they are very worn. Replacing the armature is not necessary unless it does not turn (shorted or open windings, broken commutator).

The second set of holes in the wheels was for siderod screws. The wheels were used in other small locomotives with siderods.


Larry

 

[Millstonemike]

Anyone else see the inside of the bushing? It seems worn in a peculiar way, like it's threaded. Enough slop in the bushing may allow the worm gear to skip causing the noise. Perhaps not run enough in this state to wear the gears.

 

[ErnestHouse]

Are you sure you have lubricated the TOP of the armature?
the area where the armature goes into the brush plate. Several of my locos make a similar sound until lubricated.

:appl: That did the trick :appl:

Mostly. There's a little grinding noise but some oil on the armature plate made it zip back and forth again. Not sure if the brushes are ready to be replaced. See below. I already ordered replacement brushes, gear and axle.

As far as grease for when I replace the gear, I see Red n Taky mentioned but not in stock at my ACE. Any recomendations that might be available locally in small quantity?

 

[ErnestHouse]

Anyone else see the inside of the bushing? It seems worn in a peculiar way, like it's threaded. Enough slop in the bushing may allow the worm gear to skip causing the noise. Perhaps not run enough in this state to wear the gears.

Good Eye Mike. When I first had a problem months ago, the screws holding down the armature top had loosened causing it to stutter badly. It kept happening until I put threadlocker on them. I think it's arguable that in one of those times, the armature wobbled and damaged the bushing. I ordered a new one along with worm gear, axle and brushes to refurb the drive train. Gotta wait for a a wheel puller to be made by Mr Timco. Thanks for the help.