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Which steamer burns hotter, oil or coal?

5K views 73 replies 23 participants last post by  JeffHurl 
#1 ·
Assuming same engines but one burns coal and other oil, who has the hotter fiirebox? I realize that coal type, how coal is spread, drafting etc is a factor. I was curious if there has been studies that say one way or other. AND which gives more miles per load (more bang for the bucks)?
Yes I know apples and oranges.
 
#38 ·
Alstom, a world leader in green and smart mobility, has been developing a portfolio of zero-emission mobility solutions for several years and has launched an ambitious battery and hydrogen innovation program. Alstom has been working since 2013 on the launch of a regional train equipped with hydrogen fuel cells. The first two 100% H2 iLint trains entered commercial service in 2018 in Germany and, to date, 41 trainsets have been ordered by two German states and successful trials have taken place in Austria, in the Netherlands, in Sweden and now in France. In Italy, the operator FNM confirmed an order for 14 hydrogen-powered trains at the end of 2020. This year, France also joined the circle of “founding countries” with an order from SNCF for 12 Coradia Polyvalent dual-mode trains (electric/catenary and hydrogen/fuel cell traction) for four French regions (Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Bourgogne-Franche Comté, Grand Est and Occitanie).

Alstom Hydrogen Train



 
#40 ·
Alstom, a world leader in green and smart mobility, has been developing a portfolio of zero-emission mobility solutions for several years and has launched an ambitious battery and hydrogen innovation program. Alstom has been working since 2013 on the launch of a regional train equipped with hydrogen fuel cells. The first two 100% H2 iLint trains entered commercial service in 2018 in Germany and, to date, 41 trainsets have been ordered by two German states and successful trials have taken place in Austria, in the Netherlands, in Sweden and now in France. In Italy, the operator FNM confirmed an order for 14 hydrogen-powered trains at the end of 2020. This year, France also joined the circle of “founding countries” with an order from SNCF for 12 Coradia Polyvalent dual-mode trains (electric/catenary and hydrogen/fuel cell traction) for four French regions (Auvergne-Rhône-Alpes, Bourgogne-Franche Comté, Grand Est and Occitanie).

Alstom Hydrogen Train



Why oh why if the US is supposed to be a first world leader, are we so far behind others in transportation technology? Basically politics to build roads, baby, build. Others have light rails to get from A to Z while we do endless feasibility studies then when everything is in place a monkey wrench is thrown in (system must use only turbine and solar no utility yada yada.) Then back we go to, should a new power plant be gas, coal, nuclear, solar, wind to power system, and back to square one we go.
My, how far afield this thread has gone from my original inquiry of which gives best steamer bang for the buck.
 
#39 ·
We have solar panels on roof, our monthly electric bill has been cut to 1/3 or less. What power we don't use is banked by utility against winter time with less sun.
We plug in our Prius Prime hybrid every time so solar charges batteries, even during cloudy days. Since we drive less than 20-25 miles a day on a full charge, Prius uses only battery power, little or no gas.
I calculated that if gas ever drops below about $2 gallon, I can push a button and Prius will run on gas only, because electricity will now be expensive. But in our area we are $4+ now, so will be a long wait.
 
#43 ·
It's funny how the law of averages works...

On average, a person puts 15,000 miles per year on a car. I would also say that on average, a person drives 5 days a week, give or take... That amounts to ~260 days that we use our cars each year.

So... doing the math, the average car travels about 58 miles in total on any given day that the car is actually used. This is in-line with the national average commute time of ~30 minutes, plus a little more for running errands, etc.

Without any other data, I would conclude that an electric car with a 350-400 mile range would be far more than anyone needs... To be honest, if the only reason I needed a car was to commute and run errands, I would already own a plug-in hybrid. But, I need to tow heavy loads occasionally. And several times each year, I make road trips that are far longer than 400 miles one way, let alone round trip... often spending the night in a little no-tell motel along the way... cheap, convenient and simple.
 
#44 ·
We just sold our 44' motorhome. We were full timers for just under 7 years. There is a market that has just been opened up. Tesla didn't want to see their car ever towed, period, end of story. Something Musk insisted on or so I was told. But there are two pickups that are now coming on the market that advertised they can be flat towed, which is the only way to go. We flat towed a Jeep Grand Cherokee for the better part of the six + years. Never a problem. But an electric would have been ideal. When we went someplace we were in a campground and being a larger coach we are alway hooked up to 50A service and when we weren't we had a 10kw generator that supplied over 50A. From the campsite most trips were short. Less than 100 miles in any one direction because if we were going any farther we just moved the coach not the towed.

An electric car or truck would have been ideal. It could charge while being towed or over night. But alas they were not available until now.

One of those companies can hit a home run. Make a deal with Newell or Prevost or even Newmar. Buy a new coach and we will give you a free toad. On these coaches that sell for $1.5-2.6 mil there is plenty of room in the markup for a $70k truck. There is a good marketing plan there for someone to get into. Once they are seen in the upper end campgrounds the keep up with the Jones will take over.
 
#45 ·
If the campground can support the extra power. Right now most can't even keep up with the campers they have. Without redoing all the infastruture, it will not be happening. My 30 amp power supply for the camper gets cut off for low voltage like 3 times a year while camping.
 
#47 ·
Its not always the older boxes and the amprage. ( i have had my share of reverse wireing, and surges also) Go to disney when its 100 degrees, everyone has the acs on, more draw. I had low voltage there, and thats a top of the line campground. Sometimes the supply to the campgrounds just can not keep up. But yea, I here you about the older used boxes. Unfortunately, we all have acs, tvs, cooking gagets, ice makes, fridges, phones, pads, awning lights, heaters, water heaters, etc. Lots of stuff to be plugged in that people never had in the past. I for one use the voltage instead of the propane as its easier. People like convince. Plus you wouldn't even know unless you had a ems system. Most people dont.

On another note , at a state campground a tesla owner rented a spot in a campground to charge for the day across from me.
 
#57 ·
When I was a teenager, 7-11 was the only game in town as far as convenience stores went. WAWA hadn't yet reached my part of Philly. Slim Jims were ten cents. Tastykake pies and cupcakes were still ten cents but went to twelve cents. Franks soda was great. Yoohoo was advertised by Yogi Berra. Cumberland Farms stores gave 7-11 a run for their money, especially on milk.

By the way, are we still on which burns hotter.....🔥:ROFLMAO:
 
#61 ·
As to the OP's original question:
The amount of heat needed to boil water is the same = firebox heat the same. The concern is which is the better fuel to do it with ? There's a reason why most steamers had been converted to oil by the end of their era..I've no stats on that..But here's another angle:
Oil burners mean no ash pans to rake out or ash pits to empty = less sooty air in/near yards.. 🛤🏭
 
#62 ·
But the burning of oil leaves particulate matter in the atmosphere, as does burning coal. Coal soot can be seen, whereas oil soot cannot. But both are equally problematic.
 
#66 ·
So, what ?! Of what significance does that hold with my statements or the OP's question ?!
No one here is discussing job loss ! The subject is coal v oil burning steam locomotives.
Oh, did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed this morning LOL I'm simply continuing the conversation, which as most of us know, may veer off in different directions.
 
#67 · (Edited)
Your first post, # 17, and your ensuing posts have zero to do with the OPer's title and post #1.
I know there is no forum ruling against that. But I believe it, out of common respect for every OPer we at least try and assist him or her initially before going off on a tangent with our own memories or problems, many a time leaving the OPer in the dust..
 
#69 ·
Along with a few other members, I simply offered not only an opinion and maybe some knowledge, but replied to those members who, like myself, have veered onto another track. So why not admonish any other member who also took the same siding ?

I'm done with this subject. This tit for tat is not doing this forum any justice.
 
#71 ·
Ok so next is, who cares. Really eaither way. This place has a ton less people posting then in the past. It seems a lot of us have gotten old and bitter. Like the stayboff my lawn people. A lot left a while ago, the Im going to take my ball home so no one has fun group. In reality, who cares. Comment as you will, be nice and civil, and threads do go off the rails sometimes. But without posts, goood or bad we dont have a fourm. So play nice people. Me included, sorry old, the I like turtle's is all I though if with the peanut butter coment. 🆒 carry on, have fun!
 
#72 ·
I think it all comes down to practicality.
Hypothetically speaking, coal might be less efficient but more abundant/easier to acquire for entity 1, but for entity 2 the opposite may be true.

I don’t believe it is wise to put all eggs in one basket. Not only do I support a diverse portfolio, but I think an entity would be wise to have capacity of 120% in relation to usage. To word it another way, using only 80% of what you can actually store; whether we’re talking a house heated by propane or a nation that runs on dunkin, you need an emergency buffer.

Today I was looking at 3 horse head oil wells near me, all three in the middle of crop fields. Compared to coal, oil wells are very noninvasive. Similarly we have natural gas wells everywhere, if you know how to recognize them. In metro Detroit there is a hotel that has a natural gas well in the middle if its parking lot. It’s fenced off, but, they’re everywhere. Corn fields, church property, parking lots, everywhere.
Coal requires expansive mines.

They all, except maybe for natural gas, have extremely useful byproducts too. I often think about how different the world would be without things like acetone, asphalt, turpentine, nylon, velcro, and polyester. In fact, if I could listen to one of those activists rant & ask just one question, it would be why are they wearing polyester if they hate fossil fuels? I’m 90% sure I’d get a confused look from them, oblivious to the implications of what they’re pushing.

I’ve said it before; if you want to turn back the Industrial Revolution, 1736 is where you end up. And if you want to live that way, you’re free to right meow. But I kind of like modern advancements such as air bags, seat belts, waterproof roofing, and pharmaceuticals to fight illness. If you hate fossil fuels, stop using a var seat for your kid, a seatbelt for yourself, a padded sofa to sit on, a smartphone to call your friends, etc.
 
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