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Rolling stock circa 1910-1915?

4.9K views 18 replies 9 participants last post by  CTValleyRR  
#1 ·
I am curious as to the rolling stock that would have been available in the era of 1910-1915. I am sorry to sound like such a noob, but in searching various catalogs, it is hard to try to determine what era different rolling stock came from. I am also interested mostly in rolling stock that would have been used in the PNW, specifically Central Oregon.

I would like to have a freight consist of boxcars, flatcars, cattle cars, grain cars, log cars, lumber cars, hoppers and gondolas. I apologize, but I have no clue as to what I am looking for.
 
#2 ·
I know you're getting a little frustrated, both with the answers you're getting here, and with what you've been able to find. Nevertheless, I submit the answer below. A straight answer, which you probably don't want to hear and probably won't be received well.

If you demand the level of prototype fidelity that you seem to be asking for, then you're going about this all wrong. Nobody here was born an expert. We all acquired knowledge by reading and doing.

You will need to start educating yourself with what may be an exhaustive research project, to understand WHEN types of cars were built, what the spotting characteristics of those different models were, what they were made of, what types of trucks, wheels, etc. they had, and so on.

Then you can begin to ask really focused questions: I have a Bachmann Spectrum coach that conforms to the basic specs of the car I want, but the trucks are wrong; they should be this model vice that one. Does anyone know of a source for those trucks that would fit this model. You will be much more likely to get good answers with this approach than your current one, which is basically hoping that someone has already done all the legwork for you.

And then you'll need to be prepared to make a lot of it yourself. Despite the proliferation of highly detailed, ready to run models these days, odds of you hitting on an exact copy of the equipment you want are still pretty slim.
 
#3 ·
CTValleyRR,

Thank you. I am finding that to be the case more and more. I actually enjoy doing the research, as I am somewhat of a history buff and I am in a constant quest for knowledge. Do you have any recommended reading materials about early railroad equipment?

I honestly apologize if it seems that I am just asking questions without doing the legwork. I have literally thousands of documents, pdf files, photos and digital images of my prototype railroad. I don't mean to be such a noob, I just have lots of questions that I am unsure how to find the answers to.

Here is an example of the kinds I don't understand- My prototype railroad ran a Baldwin 4-6-0, built in 1904, with 63" drivers. But I have seen a couple different "classes" of Baldwin 4-6-0 locos, but I do not know how to distinguish between them.

I hope this helps.
 
#4 ·
#5 ·
European manufacturers divide up their equipment by Eras. This is sometimes also subdivided into two or three different time periods.

Era III for example will sometimes be subdivided into IIIa, IIIb, and IIIc. Or Era IVa and IVb.

It does make it easier to be fairly certain your locomotives and rolling stock match the era you are modeling.
 
#7 · (Edited)
My guess



Oregon_Trunk;

I'll state up front that I don't really know the answers you're looking for. Therefore my guesses, (and that's all they are) will be generalities, not specifics, and some may be wrong. I have found however, through my personal experience on the forum, that posting anything that is wrong can often be an effective way of getting information. Six people write in to tell you what you got wrong, and their idea of what's right. :rolleyes:

Your time period predates the US entry into world war one (in 1917) a little, so "composite cars" (minimal steel frames supporting mostly wooden bodies) probably wouldn't be appropriate. Composite cars were also called "war emergency cars" and the purpose of their design was to "save steel for the war effort."
All-steel "heavyweight" passenger cars would have been a fairly new innovation back then. Some class 1 railroads would have some, and they probably would have been used on the crack passenger trains of that time. Secondary trains, and likely all trains on a secondary line like your Oregon Trunk, would be more likely to be still using wood-sided passenger cars. There were perhaps exceptions, possibly including the personal car of a "Railroad Barron", for example.

Generally freight cars would be 40' or less, in length, and of lower capacity than those of even 20 years later. Vertical mounted brake wheels would likely have been common. Wooden roof walks would have been a normal fixture on all boxcars, cabooses, and stock cars.
Automatic air brakes hadn't been universally adopted by every line yet, and even those companies that were using air brakes would have left the roof walks and vertical brake wheels in place for setting the hand brakes on cars spotted on sidings.

Specialized grain cars, like covered hoppers, wouldn't have been around back then. The common method of shipping grain was in boxcars, with the grain shoveled in by hand. Perhaps using low partitions called "grain doors" to hold the load in when the hand shoveled load got close to the main doorway.

The most common freight car was the forty foot boxcar. Most freight would have been shipped in boxcars. Most hopper cars, and gondolas, would be shorter than the boxcars. Thirty six feet was a common size.

Log cars could have been anything as far as those odd little gadgets used to haul large, raw, logs from the woods to the nearest sawmill. They were often built by the lumber companies that owned them, and modified on scene. Disconnect log cars, and skeleton log cars, were two common types.
Logs would be a rare item on a conventional freight train, traveling a longer distance. If they needed to be shipped this way they would be loaded on conventional flat cars equipped with side stakes and the logs would be chained down. If you've ever seen the train wreck scene in the old film, "How the West Was Won", you know why! :eek:

Finished lumber was commonly hand loaded and shipped inside boxcars. If the Oregon Trunk freight agent knew his job, he wouldn't be likely to ship lumber exposed to the frequent rains of the Pacific Northwest. And, of course those neat plastic-wrapped bundles we see riding flat cars today, wouldn't have existed then.

"Cattle cars," or stock cars, would be 40' or less in length, and have the familiar open slat wood body, riding on a steel under-frame. Steel slated bodies were not built until much later.

Motive power, all steam. No diesels yet. A few electrics roaming here and there, but those were rare exceptions, and only on a few lines.

Finally, although, as he said, it might not be welcome news; I have to agree with the part of CTValley's response saying that only exhaustive, personal, research of the prototype railroad, not the scarce available models, will get you accurate information. My preceding guesses are based largely on my reading about the Milwaukee Road's activities in the Pacific Northwest in a fairly close time period.

You have set yourself a very difficult task. If you were modeling the Santa Fe, or Union Pacific, there would be a lot more material generally available. I found that even the Milwaukee Road, which was a class 1 transcontinental, has had much less written about it than many other railroads. Modeling a subsidiary of the SP&S, which was itself a subsidiary of the Great Northern, has to be a formidable research challenge. There is a plus side though. I found the "detective work" of researching a prototype to be quite interesting in itself. I hope you will too.

Good luck, have fun;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:
 
#8 ·
Oregon_Trunk;

I'll state up front that I don't really know the answers you're looking for. Therefore my guesses, (and that's all they are) will be generalities, not specifics, and some may be wrong. I have found however, through my personal experience on the forum, that posting anything that is wrong can often be an effective way of getting information. Six people write in to tell you what you got wrong, and their idea of what's right. :rolleyes:
It's the internet. There's always someone who is wrong! :D
 
#9 ·
traction fan, thank you! You answered my question to the point and your info was very useful.

I also find the research aspect to be very rewarding, and that is actually what led me here and gave me the idea to create an HO scale of the Oregon Trunk. I am a member of the Jefferson County (Oregon) Historical Society, which is where the Oregon Trunk Maintenance facility was located in Metolius. The hurdles I am encountering in my research are many and they are varied, but the biggest by far has been trying to find data specific to the Oregon Trunk. I have tried to find rosters and such specific to the OT, but the info is very minimal. I have also looked through SP&S and GN archives, but the roster for either of those roads is enormous and does not differentiate between SP&S/OT nor GN/OT. All I really have to go on are vintage and original photos, and as said before, I don't know enough to really know what I am looking at in regards to rolling stock.

I understand that achieving my goal will take lots of work. I look forward to that enthusiastically. I know that near nothing will be an 'exact' copy of anything on the OT, and I will have to settle for 'close enough'. That is acceptable. I also realize that I will have to kit-bash or scratch-build most of the structures and possibly some rolling stock, as well as small details and such. Building is what interests me.


I really and sincerely do appreciate everyone who takes the time to answer my many questions. Thank you for taking the time to explain things.
 
#10 · (Edited)
Photos as a reasearch tool





Oregon_Trunk;

You're quite welcome to my "musings." I'm not sure if they're anything more than that, but if they help you at all, that's fine with me.

Don't sell those "vintage and original photos" short, as a research tool. The saying about a picture being worth a thousand words is as true in model railroading as anywhere else.
The two structures below are based entirely on such photos. I had no plans, or measured dimensions, for either structure; just photos, and my guess as to the height of a man in one photo to estimate the dimensions of the prototype structure. Both models are scratch built from basswood, and both are more than close enough to the appearance of their respective prototypes for me. An advantage of modeling something that is no longer there, as these structures are not, is that it's a little tougher for some yayhoo to nitpick them. :D In the case of your model railroad, the number of surviving people who have exact memories of the appearance of the Oregon Trunk railroad a century ago has to be pretty limited, to say the least! :laugh: That's not intended to quash your personal enthusiasm, it's just a case of "Who's really going to know?"

The covered bridge model's main span is loosely based on the Allentown covered bridge that once stood south of Seattle. However there' a big bucket of "modeler's license" involved too. The real bridge had wood trestle graded approaches back quite a ways from either end. They reminded me too much of those hokey-looking plastic "trestle sets" from Atlas, so I choose not to model them. :rolleyes: I guess there really is a prototype for everything! :eek:
The real bridge also spanned four tracks, of four separate railroads, vs. only one track on my layout. I just didn't have room for even one more track that actually goes anywhere further than two feet, let alone three more tracks that do.
But, so what. I like it, I call it the Allentown bridge, and if someone has a better model of it good for them, & please post a photo.

The little Black River train order station is probably pretty close to an accurate N-scale model of it's prototype. I was fortunate enough to have several good photos, taken from different angles and distances, to work from. Several photos had men in them which was a great hep in estimating the size of this structure. The photos were in the book, "Northwest Rail Pictorial."

The points I'm making are that you are the only person that needs to be satisfied with the accuracy of your model railroad. You are also likely to be one of the very few people who would know exactly what the model they're looking at is a model of, let alone exactly what the prototype looked like. So the notion of having to get everything as close to perfect as possible is unnecessary, unless you are personally more than somewhat obsessed. If that's the case, I'm afraid there's little hope for you! LOL :laugh:

Have fun. That's all that really matters;

Traction Fan:smilie_daumenpos:



 
#12 ·
Here's another tidbit for you: if you're planning on using Great Northern locomotives either as themselves or as SP&S hand-me-downs AND you're that specific about the size of the drivers; be aware that GN and the Pennsylvania were the only two US roads to favor what is called a "Belpaire Firebox" (or Boiler), and it makes a noticeable difference to the locomotive. I too am interested in the GN and SP&S, although my actual layout has cars from ice reefers to a 60' GN boxcar :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belpaire_firebox
 
#13 ·
CTValleyRR, is there any recommended reading material that will help me to learn what the different components are and what different rolling stock was available back then? Anything that you would recommend in regards to early 1900s locomotives, passenger cars and rolling stock would be very helpful.

As a side note, I have learned that the OT only owned 3 locomotives and 10 tank cars from 1911-1917. All passenger cars were Great Northern stock, and I believe would have been very similar to SP&S Railway's Oriental Limited. Other rolling stock I believe would have been SP&S due to the lettering style in the photos that I have. I have also found some architectural drawings of the Metolius depot, the Maupin depot, South Junction section house, Maupin Section house, Harris Canyon water tower, Gateway Depot (which interestingly was in Gateway on the Des Chutes Railroad line, but was built by Great Northern. It was a "Gambrel" style depot with a large freight depot attached at the south end. All structures built on the Oregon Trunk were of the Great Northern design.

Last question- is there a way to create an album to share all of the photos that I have of the Oregon Trunk? There are (IMO) quite a few details that I find unique and interesting about this road.
 
#14 ·
Well, if you were interested in the New Haven railroad, I could bury you in sources.

Good pictorial sources can be found here: https://morningsunbooks.com/
and here: http://www.enthusiastbooks.com/?page=shop/browse&category_id=437 (although I don't see any currently on your railroad and era, some generic sources might be useful).
These guys (Publishers of Model Railroader and Trains magazines) have some books and special issues that you might find of interest: https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/catalog/books
There are probably thousands of other books out there. Try your local library, and see if they have interlibrary loans available.

Also, Model Railroad Hobbyist magazine, an online-only free publication, has frequent articles on modifying rolling stock to correct details, as well as historical information and articles on different kinds of prototype rolling stock, trucks, etc. https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/

And speaking of MRH, I was re-reading an article in their August 2018 edition and I came across a paragraph that suits your situation perfectly: If you're modeling the transition era or later, you can pretty much find anything you need for sale; if you're modelling the early days of steam, you can pretty much build anything you need.
 
#15 ·
One more quick question, if I may. The Oregon Trunk owned 10 tank cars in 1911-1912. From what I have found, these would have been water cars for potable water. Can anyone tell me what these would have looked like? I have looked online, but have only found oil tank cars or water tenders, no water tank cars. I am hopeful someone will be able to shed some light on this for me.
 
#16 ·
In that era, it might have been a tank welded on a flat car body. There really isn't much functional difference between early tank cars; you just had to be careful what you put in them, to make sure it was compatible. Specialized tank cars didn't start to appear until the 1930's, IIRC.

Early water cars were simply wooden vats with a cover secured to a flat car. These were mostly gone by the turn of the century, though.
 
#17 ·

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