Labor intense...gotta cover the cost. Paint your own and save a bundle...:thumbsup:

...they look better too....

 

Labor intense...gotta cover the cost.

But, but, but ... labor is cheap in China, very cheap - that's why U.S. companies are moving production there. So, if labor is in fact so cheap in China (that's where these models I was looking at were produced) - isn't there a case for extreme price inflation for these models? That's what it seems like to me. We're not talking about assembling 60 " flat screen TV's that have to survive a warranty period - it's just a small painted model that has no exacting technical requirements and can't "fail" and stop working.

 

Wait your in Texas, I'm a former Arizonan, you have enough of the south of the border labor to choke on.
So business opportunity for you! Buy a bunch of naked peps and get them painted up by your south of the border folks, there labor is about as cheap as china's and make your self a ton of coin!:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Oh I don't want to get rich off it. I'd want to turn it into good paying lifetime American jobs with health care and a pension.

Oh wait - sorry - I've been watching too many Leave It To Beaver reruns. My bad!

 

Now that's is too funny! :laugh::appl::laugh:

 

Ok no way in the world if I am that small guy would I be useing a pushmower
with all those tractors on hand. Someone give him a small painted bellymower
for one of those tractors.

Pookybear

 

why do the little painted people cost so much?

They're all Unionized. Damn labor contracts ...

 

Hmmm I have 2 kids that love to paint and I can pay them in gummi bears... I may have just stumbled on a gold mine here! Build a DIY injection molder, make some peeps and have my kids paint them!!

Massey

 

On EBay there are often bulk packages of people for much less. I do have to repaint some but it is cheaper.

 

I can't say I know the answer, but I can point out one reason. The store has to make money, and shelf space is sort of like rental property: it requires regular return on investment, or you get rid of it. Some items, like canned beans, make a minimal profit but, you turn so many of them, it adds up to a good investment. Your people are at the opposite extreme. There's a limited pool of buyers for your N scale peeps: you may be the only buyer, this month. You'll probably buy no more than 2 or three sets in your lifetime. To pay the rent on the shelf space for an item that sells once a month, they have to collect that months rent in one sale, from one customer.

 

They get that much cause people buy them, if no one bought them the price would surly come down. But there are always buyers.


I bought 50 N people off this seller and 100 cars. Cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300-pcs-N-scale-Painted-People-passengers-19-styles-/400131934252?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5d29b8c82c
Cars are OK for a parking lot to fill up.

The people are OK but they all look oriental.:laugh:

I see now they do have some white folk now.

As far as shipping to you they are excellent shippers.:thumbsup:
I got them faster from them then some people that are shipping to me from a neighboring state.
They are honest too.:laugh:

I look for cast or pewter in O gauge. I have gotten some very good deals too, but I look and watch and then I snipe them.
Or I look for lots of people, some need a little paint because they are weathered from age.

 

I bought 50 N people off this seller and 100 cars. Cheap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300-pcs-N-scale-Painted-People-passengers-19-styles-/400131934252?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item5d29b8c82c

I can't get to your link, all I get is this message -

The page isn't redirecting properly

Firefox has detected that the server is redirecting the request for this address in a way that will never complete.

Can you tell me the name of the seller so I can find them another way? I did search for N scale peeps and found 100 for $8.95 from some group called

"WeHonest" - a little cheesy sounding but whatever - $8.95/100 is more like it anyway. :thumbsup:

 

I ordered 50 cars, 100 peeps, 90 trees, and 5 R/G LED signal lights - all for $60!

Hooray for China!

Oh did I just say that? hwell:

 

The trees I heard are not the best.
It is not how they are made but the color.
Somewhere on a site (not here) someone demonstrated how to dip the tress into a paint wash mixture to get the color tone better.

Maybe they improved on them some since then.
Which people did you get? Are they all oriental looking?

I hope they are to your liking when you get them.

 

At least you are recycling them as strawberry pots!! I love strawberries!!

Massey

 

I went to the local hobby shop today and picked up a few more cars. I was checking out the N scale painted people and a box of six was about ~$14.

Now, given the low cost of manufacturing and low wages, why is this product so expensive?

Well without boring you and everyone else here about the whole marketing process, I'll just name a couple of reasons. Shipping. How much do you think Diesel for a ship from China to here is going to run? Somebody's got to pay for that. Then both the dealer here and then the hobbyshop has got to make something as well.

Though it can be a real pain, painting them youself can save you a bundle.

http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Model-Power-5772-HO-Figures-Unpainted-72-p/mdp-5772.htm

Going by what you paid for 6 people, 72 people would set you back at around $168. But 72 unpainted people, the paint, can of thinner, a special holder of the people and the shipping charges would still come out costing less than what it would cost to buy the same amount of people already painted. Besides, most "already" painted figures look phoney, as they SHINE.

Routerman

 

Well without boring you and everyone else here about the whole marketing process, I'll just name a couple of reasons. Shipping. How much do you think Diesel for a ship from China to here is going to run? Somebody's got to pay for that. Then both the dealer here and then the hobbyshop has got to make something as well.

Have you read the whole thread? After Big Ed told be about where to buy them on Ebay, I bought 100 painted people - N scale - shipped from China, for $8.35 + $3 shipping. That's some pretty cheap diesel fuel (except it's probably not getting here on a boat). They even offer 200 painted people shipped from China for $15 + shipping!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-pcs-N-s...People-passengers-19-poses-/260768883140?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item3cb70961c4

I got them for about 12 cents/person. If the hobby shop sells say 6 for $10 (let's be generous - they really charge more) then they are charging $1.67/person. The dollar markup (assuming they can get the same price I can) is $1.55. The percent markup based on cost is is 1.55/.12 = 12,900% markup - notice that's twelve thousand nine hundred percent, not 12.9 percent.

So I'm afraid your analysis doesn't seen to hold up based on the calculated markup. If the markup in the hobby shop business is over 12,000%, I'm in the wrong business. And as soon as everyone wanting N scale painted people knows how to get them for 12 cents/person, the hobby shop will be out of the business of selling them.

 

The figures at those prices will not be nearly as nice as the Woodland Scenic figures (just a hunch)

All businesses try to maximize their profit - those in China are no different and have a distinct advantage with their cheap labor and tightly controlled currency.

 

The figures at those prices will not be nearly as nice as the Woodland Scenic figures (just a hunch)

Out of curiosity I'd be interested in where the Woodland Scenics people were manufactured/painted. Do you happen to know.

All businesses try to maximize their profit - those in China are no different and have a distinct advantage with their cheap labor and tightly controlled currency.

That's why we are losing countless jobs and factories to China. The question is - what are we going to do about it?

 

Can you make a living on minimum wage? I'd like to think that we should pay Americans better than minimum wage so that they can get somewhere in life, save for retirement and do well in this world. I personally hate the idea of people working, yet still starving - how about you?

Minimum wage gets you nowhere.

Interesting that you say you want to buy American product, but then your comments would indicate you would do so only if the people here in the US are making minimum wage (or less.)

What's reasonable? Even at minimum wage of (not even sure what it is now - I'll guess $8) - you're looking at $1.50/figure, just for painting the figure.

It really comes down to how fast can they be painted and how much are you willing to pay people to do the work...Robots can't do this.

When you buy from a larger company vs some internet guy, the product tends to be better regulated as well (no lead in the paint, etc.) True, but not always guaranteed.

I'll buy the unpainted figures (only labor cost is a guy running a molding machine spitting out a couple hundred figures on each pour in the mold) and paint them myself rather than support slave labor rate wages in China.

I agree it's a global marketplace, but we as Americans need to protect our interests and should make it a priority to secure manufacturing in this country (remember - mfg won WWII - the enemy had better weapons, we just had more of them....they'd destroy our tanks at a 3:1 rate, but we outbuilt them 10:1. Without manufacturing in this country - we are truly lost. It is possible to turn back, but people need to be willing to pay more for domestic products (significantly more for products produced here vs China.....)

For reference - In 2008 - Chinese labor averaged $1.36/hour.....i.e. the minimum wage ($8) in this country is 5.8x higher than the average wage in China. If you get out into the villiage labor pools - you're looking at $0.82/hour.....the high end jobs pay $2.38/hour

http://www.bls.gov/fls/china.htm

Again....what would be REASONABLE to you?

 

Can you make a living on minimum wage?

No.

I'd like to think that we should pay Americans better than minimum wage so that they can get somewhere in life, save for retirement and do well in this world. I personally hate the idea of people working, yet still starving - how about you?

Minimum wage gets you nowhere.

But how much should the minimum wage be, and how would you pass it through Congress? What would you do with the people who were laid off when the companies now paying minimum wage can't support all their workers when wages by law must increase? What about health care costs, benefits and so on? Is it all to be legislated?

Interesting that you say you want to buy American product, but then your comments would indicate you would do so only if the people here in the US are making minimum wage (or less.)

What's reasonable? Even at minimum wage of (not even sure what it is now - I'll guess $8) - you're looking at $1.50/figure, just for painting the figure. It really comes down to how fast can they be painted and how much are you willing to pay people to do the work...Robots can't do this.

You keep arguing about the price of the figures painted in the US - it is what it is, but it's not competitive in a world-wide market. Do you believe in competition or artificial price controls? What's reasonable is driven mainly by the market. It's a worldwide market - you can't change that. So by definition the price of the Chinese people is reasonable. If it wasn't, they would sell them for the price they are offering in a world-wide market. Nevertheless I said I would pay maybe 10 - 20 % more for made in USA - not orders of magnitude more.

When you buy from a larger company vs some internet guy, the product tends to be better regulated as well (no lead in the paint, etc.) True, but not always guaranteed.

Maybe, but it depends on the source.

I'll buy the unpainted figures (only labor cost is a guy running a molding machine spitting out a couple hundred figures on each pour in the mold) and paint them myself rather than support slave labor rate wages in China.

OK.

I agree it's a global marketplace, but we as Americans need to protect our interests and should make it a priority to secure manufacturing in this country (remember - mfg won WWII - the enemy had better weapons, we just had more of them....they'd destroy our tanks at a 3:1 rate, but we outbuilt them 10:1. Without manufacturing in this country - we are truly lost. It is possible to turn back, but people need to be willing to pay more for domestic products (significantly more for products produced here vs China.....)

For reference - In 2008 - Chinese labor averaged $1.36/hour.....i.e. the minimum wage ($8) in this country is 5.8x higher than the average wage in China. If you get out into the villiage labor pools - you're looking at $0.82/hour.....the high end jobs pay $2.38/hour

http://www.bls.gov/fls/china.htm

Again....what would be REASONABLE to you?

The question is too vague. It depends on the product, how many suppliers there are, where the suppliers are located, what the benefits of each company is, how much of the production is automated, what the profits of the company are, what the costs of materials is... and on and on.

And it's all a matter of the laws. What regulations are you going to pass through the Congress to get your vision in motion? Do you want tariffs in place to pump up the price of imported goods?

 

Yes....tariffs on imported goods would be great. That's precisely what the japanese, Chinese and Koreans do to US goods.

They can ship all they want here, but we can't ship goods there. (For example, labor in Japan is about on par with US labor rates, but because they have such protectionist policies on imports, US products don't get sold there in high numbers.)

If minimum wage went up, the cost of everything would go up and people would need to be willing to pay more. It wouldn't put companies out of business if the trade policies supported the higher wages. Remove the benefit of the cheaper labor and mfg will follow.

If the world were truly a "free trade" market, then any product from any country could be sold anywhere. That simply isn't the case. We have very open borders to imports, other countries do not. When those other countries tariff our goods making them non-competitive on their soil, we should respond in kind.

You're the one that posed this questions "That's why we are losing countless jobs and factories to China. The question is - what are we going to do about it?" Sounds like you're not willing to do anything about it.

If the only variables are labor and shipping and you're only willing to pay 20% more for American goods, that means (if you take the HIGH labor rate in China) - you're willing to pay US workers less than $3/hour to make these things. Glad I'm not working for you.

I'm not trying to make this a personal attack, just pointing out the 2-sidedness of your viewpoint. You want them made here, but aren't willing to pay for them. THAT is precisely why mfg has gone overseas. The inability of Americans to understand what their purchasing decisions do to the decisions made at companies striving to stay alive. Compete or die.

 

You're the one that posed this questions "That's why we are losing countless jobs and factories to China. The question is - what are we going to do about it?" Sounds like you're not willing to do anything about it.

Yes I posed a question because I don't have an answer. If I had an answer I wouldn't have asked a question - I would have provided an answer.

If the only variables are labor and shipping and you're only willing to pay 20% more for American goods, that means (if you take the HIGH labor rate in China) - you're willing to pay US workers less than $3/hour to make these things. Glad I'm not working for you. I'm not trying to make this a personal attack, just pointing out the 2-sidedness of your viewpoint. You want them made here, but aren't willing to pay for them. THAT is precisely why mfg has gone overseas. The inability of Americans to understand what their purchasing decisions do to the decisions made at companies striving to stay alive. Compete or die.

I think you are rather naive in your viewpoints on the current state of the world economy/market vs. what can and will be done about it. Again it's the Leave it to Beaver mindset. That world is long-gone - the world where you can graduate high school, go to work at the local factory making whatzits, get a lifetime job, and retire with a pension. You want back what cannot be - like the line from the famous movie - that is a civilization gone with the wind.

I'm not happy about the state of affairs either for US workers, but there is nothing that can or will be done about it. The standard of living in the US is going to go down - not up. Do I want that to happen? No. But I know what reality is. But, if you think otherwise tell me what laws will be realistically passed through Congress to turn it around. I'm all ears.

The way we can beat the Chinese prices though is with automation/robotics/A.I. (artificial intelligence) which is all coming on fast in the next 10 - 20 years. Unfortunately (and all this is coming faster than you might think) that will place even more workers out of even minimum wage jobs.

Good article on this -

Robotic Nation

But, look on the bright side - with all the coming intelligent automation you can probably buy a bag of 500 little people for $5 - all US made and painted without human intervention.

 

I've only been playing around with the hobby since January. When it came time to put some "people" on my layout I visited the LHS to purchase a bunch of them and just about passed out when I saw the prices! No way, Jose!!
I then found some bulk bags of 100 pieces from China on eBay for $6 or $7, with FREE SHIPPING. They arrived in about 10 days and I was pleasantly surprised at the quality. NO, they weren't as good as the top shelf "people" at the LHS, but plenty good enough for me. As an earlier poster stated, the "people" are relish, NOT the main course! I've got at least 150+ on my layout and have had numerous compliments on their realism.
Different strokes for different folks
Bob

 

Currently working in the auto industry I'm very aware of global economics. I didn't want to have to settle for a manufacturing job so I put myself through undergrad and graduate school for Engineering.

However, not everyone can be an engineer.

I think you overestimate the effect robotics can have on the price of a product. You still need people to run the machines, check the parts, etc. Repairmen for the robots, etc. (We use extensive robotics in our body/paint shops - they are expensive as all getout to install.)

For our economy to turn around people need to be working. They need to be working in jobs that not only allow them to cover the necessaries (food, water, shelter) but they also need to be able to make enough to have a little extra to invest in their future.

Personally - Minimum wage should be at least $10/hour. Think about it - a typical work year has 2080 hours in it - that's only $20,800/year - certainly not living like a king.

Remember - if you're so OK with US labor and Chinese labor competing directly - it could be your job next that is being done overseas for 1/10th the cost. China and India are training thousands of engineers/professionals that are competing for even the high paying jobs over here. (Try to get an IT service person to help you that doesn't speak with a foreign accent - Most of the IT jobs from this country went overseas as fast as the electrons could carry them.)

 

Currently working in the auto industry I'm very aware of global economics. I didn't want to have to settle for a manufacturing job so I put myself through undergrad and graduate school for Engineering.

I'm an engineer too - electrical.

I think you overestimate the effect robotics can have on the price of a product. You still need people to run the machines, check the parts, etc. Repairmen for the robots, etc. (We use extensive robotics in our body/paint shops - they are expensive as all getout to install.)

With all due respect - you don't understand the ramifications of what is coming, and mark my words - it is coming. You're still thinking in terms of jobs that require a human. Why does McDonald's not completely automate it's restaurants? Because there are jobs there that robots still can't do. Otherwise do you know what McDonald's would do (will do)? They would eliminate every job that could be done by a robot. As soon as a robot can emulate a human brain - then it can do human jobs and it can certainly paint an N scale figure with ease. It can fix other robots, make hamburgers, check the parts, stock shelves, mop floors, etc. That's all going to start coming in 10 - 20 years, even if it takes more time than that, it is still going to happen. It will put thousands of workers out of jobs, because robots don't get sick or need vacations and can work 24/7/365.

People can't imagine robots doing the jobs people do now, but just as people couldn't imagine human flight, computers, space flight, modern medicine, and many other things we do now, it's just a matter of time.

For our economy to turn around people need to be working. They need to be working in jobs that not only allow them to cover the necessaries (food, water, shelter) but they also need to be able to make enough to have a little extra to invest in their future.

While all that is true, who said our economy could be made to turn around? We don't have any inherent right to a good economy. There are no guarantees that our country will always have a good economy, unfortunately.

Personally - Minimum wage should be at least $10/hour. Think about it - a typical work year has 2080 hours in it - that's only $20,800/year - certainly not living like a king.

As soon as that is made to happen, then companies will lay off workers to compensate for the loss of profits. Are you going to pass a law that states that companies can not lay off workers or reduce hours after the minimum wage is increased?

Remember - if you're so OK with US labor and Chinese labor competing directly - it could be your job next that is being done overseas for 1/10th the cost.

I doubt it, since I'm retired.

China and India are training thousands of engineers/professionals that are competing for even the high paying jobs over here. (Try to get an IT service person to help you that doesn't speak with a foreign accent - Most of the IT jobs from this country went overseas as fast as the electrons could carry them.)

All true and that isn't going to change, so now what?

 

Wow did I start all this by recommending those?:thumbsup:

I will stay out of this, I don't want to raise my BP.


As I said, with the N scale people you can't really see them anyway.:laugh:

You guys fight (discuss) nice now.

 

Wow did I start all this by recommending those?:thumbsup:
I will stay out of this, I don't want to raise my BP.

Oh no you don't, get back here! If you hadn't mentioned the Chinese peeps this whole thing wouldn't have happened!

As I said, with the N scale people you can't really see them anyway.:laugh:

You guys fight (discuss) nice now.

Everything's going to be alright. It's a good discussion without too much flaming. We're all going to be friends after this thread is done.

 

How about T scale? You could use painted ants -

 

FYI -

National Geographic article - August 2011

Robots are being created that can think, act, and relate to humans. Are we ready?

http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/08/robots/carroll-text/1

 

Robots are being created that can think, act, and relate to humans. Are we ready?

It's not thinking robots that I'm worried about. It's non-thinking humans that scares the #@%&#@ out of me! (Especially when they have the right to vote!)

TJ

 

I am with TJ on this, to many people are to dependent on other things its just rediculous. i am in High School so I see a lot of what TJ is talking about. A lot of people more and more are becoming addicted to computers and Iprefix type things. Most of the people I have talked to have absolutly no plans for their future and these are seniors all the way down to freshmen. I have never owned and Iprefixed things like and I pod and can honestly say that hasn't hurt me in the least. I use this computer true but I am not addicted to it, I can get up right now and go do whatever I want if I want to and often times do. I am suprised at how much people just sit around all day and do nothing but listen to music or play some cheap app game thing on their Iphones and all they talk about is that or facebook. Some of my friends and i actually have the drive to go and do things, be creative, and inspire others which is what the majority of people don't have and I personally feel like it is the parents fault for it. It seems to me more and more parents just don't care about their children which I find really wrong but it is the truth. I am sure many of you on here know my ambitions and plans for what I plan to do so you all know I am not just lieing about it. I am not sure what could be done to change this but a new start. The parents need to be retought correctly and the children then need to e tought correctly because lets face it I am not the one controling the economy right now, in 10 years perhaps but not now, now it is the parents of these children with their I don't care about anything ethics that are running the economy and that is whats causing it along with greed.

 

I am with TJ on this, to many people are to dependent on other things its just rediculous. i am in High School so I see a lot of what TJ is talking about. A lot of people more and more are becoming addicted to computers and Iprefix type things. Most of the people I have talked to have absolutly no plans for their future and these are seniors all the way down to freshmen. I have never owned and Iprefixed things like and I pod and can honestly say that hasn't hurt me in the least. I use this computer true but I am not addicted to it, I can get up right now and go do whatever I want if I want to and often times do. I am suprised at how much people just sit around all day and do nothing but listen to music or play some cheap app game thing on their Iphones and all they talk about is that or facebook. Some of my friends and i actually have the drive to go and do things, be creative, and inspire others which is what the majority of people don't have and I personally feel like it is the parents fault for it. It seems to me more and more parents just don't care about their children which I find really wrong but it is the truth. I am sure many of you on here know my ambitions and plans for what I plan to do so you all know I am not just lieing about it. I am not sure what could be done to change this but a new start. The parents need to be retought correctly and the children then need to e tought correctly because lets face it I am not the one controling the economy right now, in 10 years perhaps but not now, now it is the parents of these children with their I don't care about anything ethics that are running the economy and that is whats causing it along with greed.

Can I be the Engineer after you build it?:smokin:

I will paint it for you.

 

Especially when they have the right to vote!

Perhaps the writers of the Constitution were on to something when only property owners originally had the vote.

 

gc53,
Sounds like you have some priorities established in life. :thumbsup: Congrats!
What truly amazes me these days are all the "text zombies" who can't put their electronic crutch down long enough to eat.
I actually witnessed a teenager at Wendy's last week who dribbled catsup all over his iphone while trying to eat french fries and text at the same time.
I laughed out loud right there in the restaurant!! :laugh: :laugh:
Saw another one trip and go flat on his face when he didn't see the curb because he was so engrossed in texting.
Perhaps when their thumbs fall off they'll really get the message!
Bob

 

Its amazing (in a bad way) how engrossed and dependant people are on their phones especially the Iphones. Thankfully me and a good bit of other people in my class are not like that, guess our year was raised right out of them all. Sadly some are exactly like that and I just can't imagine living like that or being that attached to a phone and it kind of bugs me to be honest. The scariest part is the people who are driving and texting or something like that. I only have my permit and I drive better then most people on the roads because i actually use turn signals, go the speed limit, and don't talk/text on the phone. I have had a few candy things like a jolly rancher so I can't say I have not eaten but I make sure to only do it at a red light if I do and not while driving.