These photos are purely for my own documentation as I have a habit of deleting old/unnecessary photos.
For those planning to follow along:
All remaining paneling is slated to be removed and walls painted hazy backdrop gray.
I’ve added captions associated with my description above.

The Spine section (yard on the wall side, divider backdrop extending to the drop ceiling). 18ftx6ft rounded ends.

The Hip section with the Allegheny River & Wye bridges. 3ftx4ft. Aisles leading toward on both sides.

Lower half of the C. Roughly 5ftx8ft over that dry bar, and connecting to the Hip. This will be the Pennzoil refinery. Work bench will be turned 90 degrees and roll under & out of sight for a clean presentation.

Upper C portion, precisely where that sectional sofa presently sits. 5ftx8ft with visible helix below. The helix inspired by Roy Smith & his N Scale UP Evanston Division western helix which can be seen on youtube. This will be the extensive Atlantic Richfield Eclipse Works refinery on the top deck. Also, the very first thing you see entering the room. Second photo is from the doorway. The I beam supports at both refineries will be utilized as exhaust stacks for plant power houses, which is the reason for some backdrop paint at the top

This photo is simply to illustrate the 3 deck heights. 56” for the top deck, 42” mid deck, and 30” for the visible staging deck. The cast drains will be replaced with PVC.

This constitutes the concept.
Rough construction set to begin early December 2021.

Stay tuned for some special construction tips, such as “auto-leveling your layout for dummies such as me.”

 

Wow - that space looks like it has a ton of potential! I can wait to see it come together! I myself am limited to a 4x8 layout ( until the kids get a little older, lol), but I still consider myself fortunate.’

i love th idea of modelling n industry. I considered a refinery, but too complicated for my skill set at this point. I am slowly putting together a stripped down steel mill. I spent quite a bit of time researching them to understand the various building functions and how the materials moved from place to place.

right now I’m looking for some good bottle style hoppers in N scale, but no dice so far. I do have some old diesel switchers that will be perfect for the traction, and a nice selection of short ore cars. The time I’m modelling is 60s/70s.

 

It’s a good size room, 25x25 feet, but with some defining obstacles/doorways. I went through several “around the wall” plans before flipping it all and putting the layout where the original aisles were. And originally it was going to be only single level.
A fun fact, which varies by personal height; sitting on a bar stool will put the top deck at almost exactly eye level. Standing puts it at chest level. On a folding chair, the middle deck is exactly eye level. The middle deck is purely scenic run through territory, there isn’t a single turnout there. Construction wise the middle deck is just a zero grade extension of the helix tracks. The option to sit back & just railfan is the main reason I will have an optional continuous loop connection that doubles as an industrial lead track during normal ops.

 

Here are some location photos that I’ll be using for layout reference, particularly landforms, river color matching, etc.
Bear in mind, while my layout is oriented the same magnetically (north on the layout being north on the prototype), I do have to relocate some things in order to fit them in. Namely the Wye bridge will be on a position in the layout that it would appear to cross the Oil Creek, not the Allegheny River. I think everyone would sooner relocate it than omit it.

Wye bridge - the “hip” of my layout with aisles approaching the bridge “in the river” on both sides.

Some interesting factoids. Note the foundation remains of a PRR roundhouse just to the right (north) of the west bridge approach. The boiler room/machine shop of that roundhouse had a floor made of WOODEN bricks.
Also that rectangular structure right beside the bridge approach was originally a car shed to store street cars in the early 1900s when times were booming. Presently it is commercial space I believe.
There is, or rather was, a pair of turnouts on that truss bridge.

 

The reason I no longer use precise drawn plans…

There’s always a wrench in there someplace.

Instead, over time, I’ve learned to play loose & fast with track planning, stay flexible and adaptive because between my brain farts, proverbial blonde moments, and Murphy stopping by to see how things are going, there’s always something. So I keep only a generalized plan in my mind with lots of room for adjustment.

And this time there is as well. So far only one, a fundamental (SEE beginners) error in my staging yard. Alas, a solution immediately presented itself. Not the end result that I’d prefer, but better than a 33% reduction in staging yard trackage.
And on this layout I expected more unforeseen issues; this is the first multi-level layout that I’ve built and one must factor in otherwise unimportant things, like leg location, L girder drop (or negative plane height?)

I’m waiting on photo updates until I get a few more modules completed.

 

With the other discussion going on where I mentioned I only keep a loose mental plan… the problem is conveying that vision to others.
I have no real need for fancy design software, and I’m limited to a tablet. So I used a free hand drawing app.
Please forgive the excessively crude drawing. I assure you, I am not 4 years old. Lol

I’ll add a couple of remarks as appropriate but most of this is pretty straight forward. Images represent top deck only. Middle deck is all scenic run. Lower deck is scenic visible staging. Also this is track only and benchwork edges are not shown.


The “Spine” & “Hip” mentioned in my earlier posts. 6ft wide by 18ft long consisting of six 3x6 modules bolted together. The blue line indicates a to-ceiling backdrop. The green dots indicate where the prototypical operations inbound & outbound mainlines “end.” The red line indicates the optional continuous loop, reversing wye incorporating the bridge, and industry lead to Glassylvania. Electralloy is the black spurs.

The other side of the wye bridge. The purple dot indicates the entry to ARCO Eclipse Works. The Red dot indicates entry to Pennzoil. My workbench will be located near the RIP track, which is also an isolated programming track. Any rolling stock in need of repair get spotted there. This area is roughly 3ft x 10ft.

Pennzoil, a 5ft by 8ft “table.” Accessible from three sides. This section of layout is top deck only, allowing my work bench to roll under it out of sight if/when desired.

ARCO Eclipse Works. Also a 5ft x 8ft “table.” This refinery is the top of the oval open-sided helix. What appears to be a double track mainline is really just one dog bone, eastbound & west bound tracks.

Additional point to be made; some elements, like escape cross overs in the storage yards. The storage yards being indicated as 2 or 3 tracks is not necessarily accurate; it’s just a representation of storage track location.

 

Heck with it, middle & bottom decks are not difficult to sketch, so here they are also.

Middle deck as stated is purely scenic rail fanning. Technically it’s just an extended loop of the helix at 0% grade. Tracks pass through the town of Franklin, before running along side (chasing I call it) the Allegheny River, a 10ft long uninterrupted scene. Here both eastbound & westbound tracks are side by side.

The bottom deck the east & west bound mainlines show they’re just 1 track. Inside of that loop are concentric full loops with a series of cross overs which will be strategically placed to allow trains to navigate inward/outward. Minimum radius here will be 18”, with the mainline radius bumping up to 28” from 24” everywhere else. This design completely eliminates the need for a ladder in any traditional sense.
Depending on the location & number of cross overs, some shifting of stored trains between or during ops sessions might be required? I’m okay with that though. In official ops sessions, no train should appear more than once, not all staged trains need to appear every time. Essentially it’s a parking lot for 9ft to 11ft long trains. I figure 8 or so comfortably on six loops.
The middle will be building flats representing New Castle Junction.

 

Heck with it, middle & bottom decks are not difficult to sketch, so here they are also.

Middle deck as stated is purely scenic rail fanning. Technically it’s just an extended loop of the helix at 0% grade. Tracks pass through the town of Franklin, before running along side (chasing I call it) the Allegheny River, a 10ft long uninterrupted scene. Here both eastbound & westbound tracks are side by side. View attachment 574730

The bottom deck the east & west bound mainlines show they’re just 1 track. Inside of that loop are concentric full loops with a series of cross overs which will be strategically placed to allow trains to navigate inward/outward. Minimum radius here will be 18”, with the mainline radius bumping up to 28” from 24” everywhere else. This design completely eliminates the need for a ladder in any traditional sense.
Depending on the location & number of cross overs, some shifting of stored trains between or during ops sessions might be required? I’m okay with that though. In official ops sessions, no train should appear more than once, not all staged trains need to appear every time. Essentially it’s a parking lot for 9ft to 11ft long trains. I figure 8 or so comfortably on six loops.
The middle will be building flats representing New Castle Junction.
View attachment 574731

No shame here...I'm still using Windows Paint for my "planning software". I've tried some of the free programs but I found myself spending too much time trying to learn the UI instead of drawing up plans. Whatever works for you!

 

I’m still in the room prep phase; wanted to share this great info.

I’m planning on having both aisle way lights, and layout overhead lights on separate switches. The over layout ones I was going to use 2x2 LED panels @ $70 each. For the aisle, recessed can retro fit lights.
I stumbled upon these, which I decided I’m going to use everywhere.

1200 lumens! (a single 850 can light up half of my 14x25 living room)
5 selectable color temps, plus a 6th making the first 5 selectable via wall switch.
Hardwired, so no existing recessed can is actually needed.
Dimmable.
And they even come with Wago type connectors.
Made by Feit, a reputable company (I use that brand exclusively)
For $15 each @Menards.

 

I’m still in the room prep phase; wanted to share this great info.

I’m planning on having both aisle way lights, and layout overhead lights on separate switches. The over layout ones I was going to use 2x2 LED panels @ $70 each. For the aisle, recessed can retro fit lights.
I stumbled upon these, which I decided I’m going to use everywhere.

1200 lumens! (a single 850 can light up half of my 14x25 living room)
5 selectable color temps, plus a 6th making the first 5 selectable via wall switch.
Hardwired, so no existing recessed can is actually needed.
Dimmable.
And they even come with Wago type connectors.
Made by Feit, a reputable company (I use that brand exclusively)
For $15 each @Menards.
View attachment 577023
View attachment 577022

Where was this post when I was deciding on my layout lighting!!! Would have been a great option especially with the ability to alter the Kelvin rating to get whatever blend K rating I'd want...

 

Well they’d probably not work for you. They have wings to grab ceiling tile.
And it was a recent discovery. Most have only 3 settings but a few now have 5.

 

This is just one aisle fixture (2700k) at full brightness. (Ok, plus the night light lantern)

And at approximately 20% brightness.

Aisle lights are needed because I have to circumnavigate 90% of the layout to reach the laundry room.

 

As most probably do not recall;
My original lighting plan was using recessed lighting retro fit kits for aisle lights… But for over the layout to use 2x2 Troffer LED panels. But Troffers are about $80 each, the retro fit kits $15, so I’m using them everywhere. Troffers would eliminate bright spots and shadows, but at the price difference, I’ll cope.

So I’ve been toying around with the color settings (theres 5 choices) and dimmer settings. I think I’ve zeroed in on my “Overcast November” aesthetic. Mind you it’s just one fixture being tested before doing the rest, so the background is darker than what it will really be.

It’s pretty moody. Especially when compared to full brightness “Summer time” lighting levels as exampled below.

However full brightness is a must for laying track, scenery, etc. The dimmers I use have a memory setting, so double-tap on it goes to full brightness, single-tap on it goes to my own dialed in brightness setting. I’ll probably do “weathering photos” in full brightness too, the dim is just for ops. Kinda makes me regret not making the sill lights operating on my locos. Oh well.

 

Right now, I'm in the "give me more light" part of my build. Maybe once all my scenery is done (is it ever?) I will consider mood lighting. I'm still in the "what the hell is wrong now?" part of things, lol! And I need a lot of light for these tired old eyes.

 

It’s a very hazy shade of winter. To dark for my tastes i miss the details that aren’t in my face. I fall between your Nov and summer schemes where I wouldn’t be looking for th3 detail but just noticing them.
As for the lighting seems it going to get the job done no matter what mood you go after. Should make for some great photo shoots once all scenery is in place for sure.

 

I’m wondering if anyone might know the linear expansion coefficient of nickel silver rail?
Temperatures don’t swing too much in my basement, but seeing as I’m planning on modeling real expansion joints, I asked myself why not also make them actually operating expansion joints instead of gapped butt joints? The coefficient only matters in terms of quantity needed.
Not the prototype coefficient, but HO Code 83 or 70.

SOLVED: 9x10 to the -6 power for copper-based nickel alloy rail. So about 0.1 inches of thermal expansion per 100ft.

 

I’ve made a significant design decision.

Now as a few of you are probably thinking I haven’t made much progress on my benchwork… That’s only partially true.
I’ve got one modular section constructed as a template for other. I’ve also been using it for familiarity. Like test driving a car before committing.
And I’ve decided that my deck heights need some adjusting. Currently they are 56”, 41”, and 30”.
BUT once factoring in fascia drop etc, the middle deck meant for scenic runs has a vertical viewing space of only 7.5 inches.
I’ve been telling myself I could probably make that work.
But why? This is why I built just 1 section as a test rig, to live with for a while & locate unforeseen oopses.
So only thing to sensibly do.

 

Me waiting for pictures...

 

Hm! I thought that I had uploaded a photo but I see now I did not. I’ll have to do that.

 

Modular benchwork section one, the test rig.

Pardon the mess. All that will be stored under the layout, and it there to checking clearance below the bottom deck.
I also tried to maintain “common parts bins” in terms of lumber dimensions, and minimize cuts during initial planning.
For example, this & most benchwork sections are 3ft x 6ft. The legs in most places are 48 inches tall. All L girders are 6ft long.
The legs I spaced all the way to the ends for two reasons. 1, most sections can be bolted together. And 2, the end sections are 3ft x 6ft half circles or half wagon wheels, and will probably get only one leg and french cleats added to the legs of the adjacent section.

My legs are made from 1x4s screwed & glued in a 90 degree. These are incredibly stable due to the foot print.
You may wonder why the lower L girders were mounted on the outside of the legs rather than the inside? Several clever reasons.

For one, it sets the legs back about 2 inches behind the fascia, for toe clearance. Reason #2 is my bus lines will be strapped to the L girders, probably with coaxial straps, and terminal strips at one end. So all of the crimping, soldering, connecting etc takes place immediately behind the fascia, not 24 inches back etc.

Reason #3 is subtle. The upper deck 1x4 supports are 1 inch shorter than the rear L girders. My backdrop (view block) will be 2 inch foam, and another benchwork section will butt up to the rear of this. As a result, a 4x8 of 2 inch foam will sit on those risers and be stabilized by the 1x4s. It’ll be free floating, but have to be installed at the same time the rear benchwork in put in place.

Clips for rope lighting. But I’ve since decided a better location would be attached to the cross supports about 3 or 4 inches back.

I’m 5’10 and I took this by holding the camera inline with my line of sight. That’s about 10 inches back from the aisle edge. Which means all my rear scenery must be removable, which I prefer.

While I didn’t illustrate it, the middle deck (with the loco line up) is only 7.5 inches below the bottom fascia. So that’s what I need to drop. The bottom L girders can be dropped accordingly and still have clearance for my larger storage items.
Two reasons the top deck fascia is so tall given the multi-deck design. It made more sense to use 4ft legs instead of cutting 6ft down to 53 inches or something. And, all the major switching occurs on the top deck which means switch machines, turnout controls, fascia track schematics, and drawers for removable car load storage.

I like full size templates to work from, rather than a 2D drawing. Plans are fine, albeit theoretical. I opt for practical first hand interaction whenever possible. Hence 1 section of benchwork to test, not 12.
Edit: sentence/spelling corrections. For whatever reason when I move the cursor on iOS things disappear.

 

Awesome thanks for sharing the pictures!!!

Pardon the mess. All that will be stored under the layout...

That ain't no mess... This is a mess!!!

 

I’ve been chasing them dragons. Or trying to push back the fog of war where the main yard will be.

A couple of rough ideas so far. A few notes up front though:
1, the benchwork area is 18ft from end aisle to end aisle, two 6ft center sections (four really but two on the yard side of the backdrop) two end sections.
2, the “double mainline” is really one mainline paralleling itself. Where the inbound and outbound come together on the right will be insulated for an auto-reverser. Despite that, polarity still poses a problem here & there.

Plan 1 I like only a little. I like the ladder run around with a switch back move into the locomotive service area. But other than that it’s pretty drab. Also, that cross over between opposite polarity mainlines may pose a problem for a switcher breaking down inbound cars.

Plan 2 is deceptive. It looks simpler at first. Until you notice the ladder is both pinwheeled and becomes a reversed pinwheel AND compound in the storage tracks. It starts curving the same as the mainlines, but ends up curving the opposite direction. It’s essentially a 5-6 foot long broad S curve, full out turnouts. Which is all 52 types of certifiable crazy. I’m not entirely sure it would work, just 99…well, 96%…. Ok honestly maybe about 75% sure. I’d have to tinker with actual turnouts in hand. 40’ cars aren’t the issue, it’s the 86’ hi-cubes that have me raising a Spock brow. The service area is a bit more robust and could still be extended, and the terminal track is much much longer, parallel to the outbound mainline. But, duly note I removed the crossover from inbound to outbound mainlines, and did not add any resolution to its absence. Additionally there is more space on the left for city blocks.
Maybe that crossover being half way on the auto-reverser would be ok. The other points of insulation will be near where the mainlines converge into one, and up near where the tracks all appear to wye together (some do some don’t).

Still thinking of more options.

 

Interesting seeing the thought process playing out. I do like #1 for its left side and #2s ladder layout. Would the 86’ handle #2s bottom 2 ladders better going out mains than rest? Interested to follow and see if you merge portions of each together or put an entirely different map out. will be a good learning experience for myself

 

In plan #2, the ladder would be made by connecting the next sequential turnout to the preceding turnouts diverging track over & over again. I think the easiest to navigate track for 86’ cars would be either the second from rear most track, or second back track. But because the ladder is pinwheels, and the storage tracks compound, probably any tangent track would work, because the compound tracks would create a shorter S curve navigable by 40’ cars. Which in theory is okay, it splits up storage, short cars then long cars then short cars then long as you count the tracks back from the aisle.
Right now I’m just aiming for general concept. Plan A, Plan B(ackup), and always good to have a C(ontingency) in case all else fails.
The short storage track is the caboose track, same general location in both plans for good viewing.

 

Where is the Dragons Zone ? You mentioned it in one of your first posts.

 

The Oil City yard. I didn’t have much of any plan when sketching the mainline out, so just write in “here be dragons” because I was trying to avoid the area planning-wise lol But I’m delving in.

 

Minor update.
Some realize that I build my benchwork in modular fashion but not scenery; just incase it has to be relocated 15 years etc from now.
So far only one module was completed. That’s my method; build a prototype, live with it a while & decide if I like all aspects.

I found I did not.

Middle & lower decks needed to be lower. Previously the middle deck had 8 inches of vertical viewing area. I changed that to 10 inches. The middle deck is all scenery for shoulder level rail fanning in a folding chair.
Lower deck was dropped by 3.5 inches for a total of 7 inches vertical viewing area. The bottom deck is all visible staging at New Castle, PA with backdrop buildings and some OVR fab shops. Visibility is priority 1 but 2 or 3 story buildings at the rear and accommodating decent shop structure will be nice.

New decks heights:
Top @ 56 inches high (Reno, PA to Rynd Farm, PA)
Middle @ 38 inches (Franklin, PA and south area)
Bottom @ 26.5 inches high (New Castle, PA area).

Now we should see some notch 8 progress this Winter.

 

I'm torn between going multi deck and shrinking footprint and using space for "others" enjoyment or saying f it and be selfish

 

I’m not going to say that I don’t know what to tell you, because I do. I just don’t want to be blamed for it.
I wish I had documented the various plans over the 3 years here. But here’s just a few facts:
Room is 24ft by 24ft including staircase. Has two egress windows. 2 support columns and 1 vertical drain ceiling to floor. Doorway on one wall to adjacent rooms (laundry, storage & bathroom).

My first plan was around what walls I could with peninsulas, 1 deck, no staging.
Wanted staging.
Discovered the open side helix idea. Redrew around the wall design again, turned one peninsulas about 40 degrees. Had 2 helices for continuous looping. Planned 2nd deck with single double ended yard, max siding length about 9-10ft.

Didn’t like the idea of climbing on the layout if evacuation via windows was needed.
Flipped aisle & layout concepts, now with perimeter aisles, island layout. Less backdrop needed, no doorways or duck under needed. Eliminated one of the two helices-wasn’t needed.

Had divine inspiration to change staging yard from double ended standard type to 6 continuous loops 6ft by 18ft with integrated & staggered ladder. New max train length is 12ft.

Second divine inspiration: Extend one “corkscrew” of the helix out under half the layout for scenes I couldn’t fit: City of Franklin, “River Run,” etc. This “extension” of the helix became the middle deck.

Kept things as connected to prototype as possible, North on layout is actual magnetic North. Pennzoil is North of Oil City, Arco is actually correctly West of. Had to move the Wye bridge or not include it, so that’s out of place but will be a “signature scene.” All industries are real current or past industries, in correct location. When I can I’m trying to recreate them as close as possible. Glassylvania will be a real challenge on masonry. (Was never rail served either but will be on my layout).

I’d have to recheck the math but I think combined square footage of all three decks is around 800 square feet or slightly less, in an area no larger than 24x24 including 3ft aisles. Three times as much layout in the same space. It’s like Buy One, get TWO FREE.
And a helix isn’t the only solution. A “cassette” such as a removable car ferry i.e. can work to shuttle cars from one deck to another by “plugging in” to different car float aprons. A lot less troublesome than an elevator system.

 

So this winter I’m going to try and get 50% of the benchwork completed. I still need to drywall etc and will need some elbow room, so the other half needs to wait.
Incidentally I got four 180 degree turns laid out on plywood, mostly double track 24” and 26.5” radii. Managed to fit all of that on a single 4x8 too.

 

Just a little pumpkin spice. That’s not the Seventies Salvation, but a 2nd 1x4ft switching puzzle that I reclaimed from long term loan. I wanted something new for photos. The pumpkins & corn stalk bundles will be details for the Seventies Salvation though.
Made from some sort of seed in autumn house decoration, and dried corn husk trimmings.